Independent Gaming

Monday, August 06, 2007

Seiklus and Knytt are both serene platformers with more focus on ambiance and atmosphere than challenges. I'm sure that if both of them were thrown into a real cage match they'd make friends with one another instead of fight.

Vote for your favorite! (To enable easy vote-counting, please mention your vote as the first word of the comment.)

Vote count: Seiklus 16 - 25 Knytt

Previous results:
Warning Forever [27] - [29] Fraxy
Dwarf Fortress [73] - [21] The Kingdom of Loathing
Sumotori Dreams [8] - [44] Toribash

Labels: cage match

Posted at 1:42 AM by miyamoto-SAN

Recent Comments

Cage Match 4 - Seiklus vs. Knytt Seiklus wins for me. Though Knytt is excellent too. Knytt for sure. knytt in an instant. Seiklus gets my vote since it is bigger. Just because it'd be mean AAAH HELL:

Knytt is more fun, it gets my vote. Knytt

While both games are written like a love letter the 8-bit-era gone by, Seiklus is content being just a Megaman clone, while Knytt strives to be a 2D version of Shadow of the Colossus. (minus the malevolent colossi killing) Knytt may not have come to be if it wasn't for Knytt so Seiklus gets my vote. Seiklus for me. Knytt's good, but doesn't compare for me - maybe a slight disappointment after WaDF, I dunno. Looking forward to Knytt Stories. Hmm: I meant 'if it wasn't for Seiklus.' Blah. Anyways vote is still the same. Knytt.

I found seiklus quite boring, and the art isn't brilliant. Knytt is more ambient and is put together brilliantly. Knytt wins for me. Kyntt.
Tough one but Kyntt does it for me. Reminds me of my hamster. Knytt.
I'd rather vote for them making friends though. Knytt Is this your hamster ? Knytt. I grinned the whole way through. Knytt Seiklus! Seiklus. Seiklus. Seiklus. It is calm and serene and grand and beautiful. Knytt. Though Seiklus seems to have paved the way for these more artistic exploration platformers, I feel Knytt stands in a league of its own. Knytt. I like the feel of seiklus better so I choose

Seiklus. knytt [Man, I'm really disapointed at the way this is going. I mean, Kyntt is a lovely game and everything, but come on...] Knytt! More polished and inspired. [@Echo: I was disappointed by the fraxy/wf vote personally :) I just tried Seiklus again and while it is excellent, the controls are a bit iffy for me and there are annoying level design decisions like traps that send you back to different bits of a level. For me Knytt is a better game, even though there's less to collect. But I was in two minds for a while :)] Knytt. Gotta be Knytt. Knytt is the clear winner. While Seiklus may have started up the whole 'ambient-platforming' genre, it just doesn't feel as well though-out as Knytt. Seiklus, for many reasons. Seiklus. Knytt. Hard choice, but Knytt has something "more"..... Seiklus. Seiklus. Knytt's challenges were too sparse to make it feel like a (fun) video game while Seiklus's simple story and "juicy" colecting mechanism kept me glued till the end. Seiklus. Seiklus easily. Knytt barely feels like a game.

'Seiklus is content being just a Megaman clone'

Um, what? Knytt. It's brilliant. Which isn't to say Seiklus isn't. Knytt is just better, and lacks the frustration in certain points of Seiklus. Knytt

Though both games are very entertaining, I prefer Knytt's art style and controls. I prefer the way that Knytt moves. It's really a question of taste. Quite trivial, actually. Knytt. Although both are great games, knytt managed to really pull me into the world with its ambience and subtle music. Also, I feel that Seiklus was too much about collecting and not as much about exploring, where the objective in Knytt seemed much more voluntary and less like a chore. Lastly, I heavily prefer the style of Knytt's interface (or lack there of) and graphics opposed to Seiklus. The fact that Seiklus contained a menu really took me out of the atmosphere of the game. Knytt Seiklus! Knytt.

I liked them both, but the environments of Seiklus weren't as consistently charming and/or interesting, which really matters when all you're doing is moving around in those environments. Seiklus, how can anyone even think of voting for Knytt Knytt

the soundtrack is so good I attually listen to it when not playing the game, it sets just the right mood :) Seiklus. Maybe Knytt looked better, but I felt more compelled to get that little guy back home than I did in Knytt. Seiklus

I do agree that it's a choice of splitting hairs. Knytt is an excellent game, and is masterfully executed, yes, but the advancement (powerups and the like) just didn't feel right to me, and it's entirely grid-based world made it seem entirely less organic to me. Also, towards the end of Knytt, the enormous amount of backtracking was starting to drive me nuts.

Seiklus on the other hand did a beautiful job portraying a colorful world; the graphical style and general ambiance did a better job convincing me of the real environment. I personally didn't have trouble with the trapped chamber, which some people complained about. Lastly, Seiklus has definitely had the bigger impact on gaming, as it was first. Knytt all the way! Seiklus has too many awesome things in it to be denied my vote. I tried to think of a legitimate comment but I honestly don't know where to begin. Seiklus blows me away every time I play it. Knytt is it for me. Can't believe I missed this cage match :P... what other games would people find similar to these and recommend , as far as atmospheric platformers?

I just found knytt the other day through a mag and have completely fallen in love with it. Now, because of scouring the web for info on knytt, I have found this page and am going to download Seiklus. I also love shadow of colossus and metroid. Cage Match 3 - Warning Forever vs. Fraxy Werning Ferover Warning Forever.

Each mode is subtley different even if the bosses are the same. I found it quite a challenge beating my scores and going for harder and harder bosses. Fraxy is good, but it suffers from how hard it is to chase down a boss sometimes, lack of sound, and bugs. User content though could push it over the edge. Warning Forever. Fraxy may play better these days, but we wouldn't have it without WF. And thanks to WF we also have the wonderful Battleship Forever, which if anyone hasn't played yet they really need to despite being still in the demo stages. However, as Fraxy grows with content and becomes fully functional as a real game (I seem to remember playing as a 'I'll take this weapon, and this weapon, and I'll blow up THIS guy today, thanks!', it could definitely become something much better. The control is certainly fantastic, with stupidly fun rapid-boosts to avoid incoming fire.

But for now, Warning Forever wins. Fraxy. Warning Forever.

I don't like the restrictively small screen Fraxy gives me. Fraxy. Altough Warning Forever is the next best thing, Fraxy just has great graphics, an editor, and more action. You can change the Fraxy window size to fullscreen, zmann. Fraxy, much more fun to screw around with, what with the boss editor. Fraxy. Fraxy hands down. being able to easily make and show off custom bosses makes it 10x better then most. Fraxy,

The space that you can navigate is big, and you can feel free to move at your will..
And also have a great enemy editor. Fraxy, barely.

WF is great fun, but dodging bullets in Fraxy just feels that much better. WF, because it's obvious where Frazzy got it's inspiration from. Javet: I know you can change the screen size. That doesn't change how much of the playable area I can see. Warning Forever. warning forever

;). i'am french, and i like the two game, but warning forever is very cool ;). Warning Forever
I have played both and choose warning forever because it's not brought down by the horribly low resolution and the resulting short time you have between seeing bullets and getting hit by them in Fraxy. Fraxy might be better then warning forever with a some more work though, it might surpass WF if it got a resolution increase. Warning Forever, hands down. I hate mouse controlled action games and sadly Fraxy falls in that category.

Mouses are for pointing at stuff with a cursor, nothing else. WF FTW! *sore hands agree* Controls ruined Frazy for me and I always found Warning Forever to be extremely tedious...

so uh....

null vote i guess Warning Forever (WF), and I will tell you why this game gets my vote: because Warning Forever TOTALLY revolutionized the Boss-only subgenre of the shmup since this freeware piece was first originally released in 1999-2002, and as such, it *definitely* became an unforgettably masterful trend that inspired such other games in the later years as Fraxy, Clean Asia, and the much recent Fractal Fighter!! Congratulations to creator Hikoza.T.Ohkubo for successfully broadening the horizons of the shmup with this game that opened up such an exciting new subgenre indeed... A TOTAL FIRST-RATE ACT all the way!!!

So for me, it is WF indeed... no question. d=^-^=b ! Warning Forever.

Definitely.I like the whole idea that you can rattle the boss by blowing a huge chunk of it off. The thing it lacks, though, is multiplayer. It would be cool to see how far two people could get, or even one controlling the boss. That would be awesome.
That is all. Warning Forever gets my vote.

It just has a much higher level of polish, drips of style, and feels more complete as a game.

Fraxy has a lot of potential, but is altogether a bit flawed and incomplete. It lacks joypad support, which is sad because it could work so well with a dual-analog control scheme. Also, visually, I don't enjoy the rotating sprites thing it has going on. Warning Forever. Gameplay is more cohesive, polished, and FAIR.

Fraxy is a very cool concept, and it is fun, but there are times when it just doesn't play well. Plus, it runs slow on my crappy old box, while WF is lightning fast. Warning Forever my vote goes to warning forever. one of the few games that actually has that just-one-more-try(tm) feel.

fraxy seems more like an engine then a full game, though it has awesome potential. Fraxy, for graphics / customization / gameplay. Could have more game modes though... Warning Forever

...nuff said :D Warning Forever.
As many others have said, it just feels more like a complete game, rather than a engine.

Oh, and Hikiware has a cute maid as its mascot. Win! Warning Forever,

Fraxy is just a terrible, imho barely playable mess. Warning Forever.

Fraxy is a fun game but didn't keep me hooked for nearly as long as WF did (and still does). As mentioned earlier, the small FOV of Fraxy is a bit claustrophobic. After all, the most important part in a boss battle game is the boss itself; in Warning Forever you got those delicious moments of tension as the warning screen flashed up and the stats hinted at the fight to come, then you were hit by that moment where you see this massive entity hell-bent on wiping you from existence. And if that wasn't enough, somewhere along the line it'd start to transform which just made the fight that much more interesting.

Though custom bosses are a plus, you just can't beat a clear-cut winner. However, despite some differing opinions, I'd love to have +mlook in WF (for the controlled shot mode). fraxy is a whole lot better. i like the way that you can make your own bosses Fraxy wins! Fraxy. What the hell is so abstract about these games, anyway? Definitley Fraxy. You know some people call me Claxy. But seriously, have you ever tried modding Fraxy? it only consists of changing images on paint. Gotta love the graphics and all the weapon choices. Fraxy is awesome. Graphics way better. Fraxy. Warning forever just doesn't give enough of a challenge. farxy is a lot more awesome than warning forver Fraxy. I think fraxy has better gameplay and controls. I'm going to side with Fraxy on this one. it has a much larger growth potential I like Warning Forever better. Fraxy may have originated from Warning Forever, but Fraxy just has more... wel... everything to it! Warning Forever.

They both have a lot of good qualities though ^_^. Fraxy is way beter, even tho warning forever is good too. They both suck. Warning Forever.

>Look at the size of WF file. It is less than 1mb!!!
Simply genius.

>Super options to change gameplay and whatever you need.

>Enemy Boss awesome and has cool A.I. to suit our attack style.

>Classic.
I vote this is Best freeware game after CaveStory. Fraxy.
I'm not playing WF anymore, but Fraxy keeps going and going and going. Fraxy. It brought greatness to the boss-only genre. Fraxy Warning Forever has a purer game play design and Fraxy has problems with camera and game structure, so I'm going with Warning Forever. Cooler name too. FRAXY! Fraxy is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than WF. It just is. I love Fraxy sooooo much! It's the best game ever! fraxy hands down Warning Forever. I just re-played both, and WF is much more of a "game", with broader appeal, whereas Fraxy's more of an engine that appeals to more creative people who want to make their own bosses. bleh, boss battles are my least favorite thing about any shooter, gameplay wise.

Only real good thing bout them is the 'wow factor' in their appearance like the first time I played Axelay on the SNES. Otherwise I feel they just slow the game down and become boring. Warning Forever especially bores me... Fraxy is way cooler than Warning Forever. WF may have started the boss only genre, but Fraxy made a whole lot better. Warning Forever, simple and fun, and the graphic has a uniqueness to it. Warning Forever

Fraxy can't win FRAXY

Warning Forever, though extremely entertaining, did not contain the depth that I found in Fraxy. I prefer the level editor and variety of enemy types, although the space for playing the game was small. Warning Forever. That game is inspiring. I think it pushed the envelope in a way that allowed games like Fraxy to exist in the first place. Fraxy is much more fun than Warning Foerver. Cage Match 2 - Dwarf Fortress vs TKOL My vote goes to Dwarf Fortress.

Not going to lie, KOL is pretty rockin' with its humouristic D&D going on, but DF has stolen so many hours of my life it's ridiculous. Dwarf Fortress. No contest :) Dwarf Fortress is a clear winner. It's the best game I've played in a long time. A Huge amount of detail, rapid development. The perfect Mix of Dungeon Keeper, The Sims and NetHack. Kingdom of Loathing but just by a hair and probably only because I've got more time invested. DWARF FORTRESS:

Reason Why: Drawbridge Catapult Traps. Dwarf Fortress.

KOL is great but can't really compare to DF. Dwarf Fortress, hands down. Kingdom of Loathing.

There's no way I can vote for a Windows-only executable when games like that are a dime a dozen. Kingdom of Loathing is hands-down the greatest web-browser game ever created. Dwarf Fortress can not compete with that. Can anyone even tell me why I would play DF over NetHack? KoL. No doubt.

I've been playing it for years, and I could never get in to DF. kol Kingdom of Loathing Never even heard of Dwarf Fortress. It looks like a kind of inferior roguelike, and considerably less sophisticated than even Angband (If DF needs different keys for attacking with different weapons, to judge from the screenshot, there's obviously a lot less you can do). By contrast I've been playing Kingdom of Loathing for several years now and it's still fun. So, I vote KOL. KOL BABY... all else is poop! Dwarf Fortress :) Kingdom of Loathing, easily. I've never been one for roguelike games. Dwarf Fortress.

Apparently many people here haven't actually played Dwarf Fortress at all or at least bothered to read anything about it before voting... good thing this is just the internets. (Hint: it's not a roguelike, at least not in the mode depicted in the screenshot chosen here.)

I do in fact play both, and I love KOL, but I definitely invest much more time and interest in DF. I've deposited quite a few hours into DF, and having to tell my dwarf lackys specifically what jobs to do, what things to pickup, where to put things you pick up, gets tiring. It's like its not a god game, its a mothering simulator. Theres something about the simple joys of swinging a heavy metal thunderrr guitarrr at a Weremoose that makes KOL the clear winner. also cocktailcrafting. every game should include that. Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress.

KOL is awesome, there's no doubt about that, but what's great about Dwarf Fortess is this simple request;

Write a guide to it.

By the time you try to finish that, you will be wiping nuclear fallout from your computer monitor and lamenting the fact that you seem to have fused to the chair, although rather comforted by the fact that your ass no longer hurts from extended periods of sitting. In fact in less dystopian circumstances it'd be kind of a boon. It's an absurdly deep game, and no matter how great Turtle Taming is as an RPG Skill Set, you can't beat something infinitessimally bigger than you. Kingdom of Loathing.

Sure, DF is fun and all, but Kingdom of Loathing has a crazy awesome community. Kingdom of Loathing... nothing like it. Kingdom of Loathing

Recently been expanded, now jokes about bands that don't suck as well as well as jokes about "They might be giants" I vote for KoL. Kingdom of Loathing.

Dwarf Fortress looks pretty interesting and I think I'll have to give it a try, but Kingdom of Loathing has kept me interested almost every day for coming up on two years now. Kingdom of Loathing, definately.

The complete randomness and funniness of some of the things that happen in that game just add on to its great gameplay. Dwarf Fortress

Never played KoL though, so maybe I'm biased :) KOL >w< rar! Dwarf Fortress! Oh god, Dwarf Fortress! KoL is funny and all, but it's all premade jokes. I have laughed out loud many a time when playing DF, just due to the situations my dwarves get themselves into (or when I flood everything with lava and drive my remaining population mad with grief). DF, but for the love of god.. couldn't they keep the roguelike graphics but move to a non-roguelike interface?! hotkeys are great for adventuring, but not for managing a sim! Seems like a lot of KOL fans voting without having played DF. Do some research. It's not even a roguelike, really. "why should I play this over Nethack" indeed :) and TMBG used to not suck :( Kingdom of Loathing. The interface for Dwarf Fortress is incredibly cumbersome, and really gets in the way of my enjoyment of the experience. I do love the idea of it, though. Dwarf Fortress.
DF is NOT and roguelike, it's an awesome fortress simulation game.

Arnos Dwarf Fortress. Any game with gruesomely detailed battle narratives, tentacle demons and a wrestling system is automatically the victor, even if it does bring your CPU to it's knees. I enjoyed The Kingdom of Loathing much more. I like dwarf fortress more.
Even though its only version 0.25, the severely underdeveloped adventure mode is almost on par with nethack. And, unlike ADOM, updates come somewhat on time.
Fort mode is also very fun. You do not need any extra buttons to attack in adventure mode. But if you choose to wrestle.....
100 options:
their body part and the one you want to grab it with.
Until you lose a limb. I'm a fan of both; give Dwarf Fortress two thirds of a vote and let Kingdom of Loathing the other two thirds. Dwarf Fortress, hands down. I've played both for many hours - the main difference is that with DF, I found myself playing for fifteen hours straight without realizing that time was passing. KoL has some good jokes and I thoroughly appreciate it, but when it comes to gameplay, detail, freedom, and replayability, Dwarf Fortress is the best I've ever seen, while KoL is merely a pastime. Dwarf fortress for sure Dwarf Fortress. Clearly. Dwarf Fortress. Easily. Flooding the world with magma will always be more fun than KoL. Dwarf Fortress, its on its way to becoming the most complicated and deep simulation ever made. THIS IS DWARF FORTRESS!!!

"Can anyone even tell me why I would play DF over NetHack?"

Depends on if your talking about adventure mode or fortress mode.

Adventure mode hasn't gotten nearly as much work as fortress mode, and nethack barely beats it.

Fortress mode has so much detail it boggles the mind. The only way it could get more realistic is if toady started modeling quantum physics with it, and I don't doubt he could.

"If DF needs different keys for attacking with different weapons, to judge from the screenshot, there's obviously a lot less you can do."

That peticular screen is from fortress mode for telling you troops what weapon to get. In andventure mode, attacking is done by moving. Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress, hands down.

I feel this is slightly unfair, because theres really is no comparison -- besides the fact that theyre both free.

One is a massive freeform sandbox, and the other is an adventure rpg. The fun in one is exploring punny content and trading with others. the fun in the other is creating content and fleshing out a massive single player world.

I have to cast my lot with DF though. even though i've enjoyed both games for different reasons, i have enjoyed Dwarf Fortress on far more levels and for far longer.

Its a revolution in game design, and the innovation it (and the other fine Bay 12 Games) display set a whole new standard for computer gaming.

a standard i really dont expect anyone else to live up to anytime soon. Dwarf Fortress. I think it has the potential (if it ever gets the mainstream attention it deserves) to go down in history as one of the most influential games ever made. Dwarf Fortress. Any game where a dwarf can go insane after drinking river water polluted with the blood of his wife and new born son is a clear winner in every match. Dwarf Fortress. I played KoL for a year or so, but then it got boring. I don't play DF now either, but it got so much potential, and when the next version is released I will start playing it again. KOL, because it's easier (and faster) to play. Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress this time. Dwarf Fortress. If only due to the Something Awful thread where they had a dwarf break EVERY bone in another dwarf's body. While ON FIRE. They both burned to death. KOL! Dwarf Fortress!

... also, Nexus War > tKoL. Dwarf Fortress without a doubt kol DF is an ALPHA and dee best in a long while. Reading over some of the comments, it seems that the KOL voters haven't played DF. Dwarf Fortress has an incredible amount of detail and little nuances that utterly defeat what KOL has to offer, so I vote Dwarf Fortress. Dwarf Fortress FTW! I votes for DF, a top game no doubt. I just couldn't get into KoL. Dwarf Fortress. There is nothing like describing to a group of people how an elephant named Krothom just trampled your best miner and then flung a dwarf's leg fifty feet. And then you're distracted by a message that says "Kal Korge has given birth. Kal Korge cancels Build Trap: seeking infant." Dwarf Fortress.

Nothing in KOL can match starting a new fort and having the whole thing meet an early, drunken demise when your fisherman pitches a rotten turtle into the barracks and pisses everyone off to the point of bareknuckle boxing. Dwarf Fortress. There is no contest. KOL is good and all, but DF has hundreds of time the ammount of content. The gameplay of DF is also superior, both in fortress and adventure mode. Dwarf Fortress. Anyone who has spent more than a few minutes with it shouldn't have any difficulty deciding this whatsoever. None. Dwarf Fortress without even a shadow of a doubt. Dwarf Fortress.

Sadly, a lot of KOL fans are posting without having tried both games. Did this get posted to a DF forum or something? :) I vote for Dwarf Fortress

While KoL takes up plenty of my time, and entertains me with a satirical slant of an MMO, it is ultimately a very shallow game. DF on the other hand is so wonderfully complex that you'll never be able to say "I know everything"

Remember. Losing is fun! I have played both of these games and while both are fun I have to vote for Dwarf Fortress. Right now as an early alpha it is already a very fun sandbox with an impressive amount of detail. The plans for future development is why it really gets my vote because I feel that KoL hasn't really changed in years despite the addition of some new jokes. Dwarf Fortress BY FAR

While I also play KOL, it's just a grind. Dwarf Fortress, like Nethack, has a really simplistic view, but you can do so much with the tools.

You can go ahead and combine lava with water and get a scalding steam explosion from where they meet. You can wage wars from your doorstep by devestating the trees in the area to piss off the elves or just slaughter the traders with abandon.

There is just so much stuff you can do with the world; even things the developer may not have planned but left in because it's really awesome to divert a portion of the river for cave farming. Dwarf Fortress by a long shot. I've spent a ton of time on Kingdom of Loathing, but it's nothing approaching as awesome. Dwarf Fortress wins by a mile! Anybody who disagrees deserves to be beaten to death with an *Obsidian Table* and thrown into the chasm. Dwarf Fortress ftw Dwarf Fortress, hands down. The number of elephants captured by my fortress now triples the number of dwarves. My butchers cannot process their meat fast enough, and soon they will rebel and snap the necks of every dwarf with their trunks. DF all the way. Although I play both, (KoL introduced me to roguelikes) I love to read the stories from dwarf fortress. KOl hahahhaa wereMoose.. Dwarf Fortress, of course Dwarf Fortress is, by and large, the better game. KOL is funny and simple, as well as easy to play, but Dwarf Fortress is a magnificently complex, infinitely replayable, and marvelously unpredictable experience. Also, the dwarves in DF are capable of some of the most hilarious strokes of bizarre stupidity that I have ever witnessed in any game, including KOL. Dwarf Fortress won for me when I had a Goblin champion with the title of "The Fancy Savage Moth" kill dozens of my Dwarves. Dwarf Fortress. Dwarf Fortress by far, but these games are really very different genres and thus a comparison doesn't work well. Dwarf Fortress. Listen folks, if you are reading this and haven't tried it yet, please do so! I had no idea a game could be so involved. This game is already one of the best I have ever played, and it keeps getting better. Mine a fortress, marshal an army, farm, trade, craft, watch your dwarves go insane, create rivers of lava or water or steam to defeat your enemies (or often, your dwarves)...I could go on for hours. dwarves 4 lyfe Dwarf Fortress. Kingdom of Loathing doesn't begin to come close to DF. Played both and both are cool but Dwarf Fortress is simply awesome, it has this "thing" that keeps you getting back every time you don't want to play it anymore, it's like, a drug for Rogue-Fans and the big minus for KOL is that it isn't downloadable.

My vote: Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress. KoL's neat, but... Dwarf Fortress, all the way. I mean, this is the most freeform, detailed game I've ever played, and it only gets better with each release. KOL is funny for a short while, but it can't hold a candle to the sheer gameplay depth of DF.

"Can anyone even tell me why I would play DF over NetHack?" - what are you, an idiot? I don't think people this ignorant should be allowed to vote. Dwarf Fortress.

The levels of complexity are astounding, but you don't really need to pay attention to the more difficult to understand parts of the game. It's there for when you have more experience. Kingdom of Loathing totally rocks and it's really hilarious.
Kingdom of Loathing always get my vote. Seriously, Dwarf Fortress wins hands-down. Awesome game, minimal problems, and encourages the drowning of pesky nobles.

Oh, and Z-axis digging and fluid dynamics are being added. Definitely KOL! It's got the best graphics out there, and combat's so exciting!!!!!!1111twothreeforty Dwarf Fortress

The two games really aren't comparable. KoL is a funny coffee break game. Dwarf Fortress is an insanely complex fantasy world simulator. I've enjoyed both, but Toady One has some of my money, and Jick hasn't. I don't play either, but dwarf fortress creates much more interesting reading, so that's what I'm voting for. There's no contast.

Dwarf Fortress. Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress is the most dangerous game. It wins. Dwarf Fortress Dwarf Fortress. No lie. Cage Match 1 - Sumotori Dreams vs Toribash Haha. Both are interesting to me, I can't decide. I "null vote" :D Drunk Sumo action FTW! :) Damn... tough choice, really tough. I guess I have to vote null as well, as either game focuses on a completely different aspect of fighting (technical body physics and da hooch), and both are crazy awesome. toribash is by FAR the better game, as you can get better/develop skills/etc..

they're both great fun for the first few minutes, but sumotori is sadly too random, you can't really "get good" at it. Sumotori! At least with that and a roomful of nicely toasted people we actually feel like we're getting good at it. Toribash is too much for me, I mean I enjoy fighting games the most when it's me and some friends, and Toribash takes MUCH too long for me to be able learn how to kick some ass, never mind training up everyone else so that we're decent competition.

-Xander (Too lazy to do the code thing through 'other') toribash is impressive and all but sumotori is far more entertaining and to crunch it all into 96k is herculean.

Sumotori wins! there's NO WAY that all you people voting for sumotori have played it for more than a few minutes.

come on -- toribash has online multiplayer!! sumotori is fun, but it's just a minigame compared to toribash. really!

i'm guessing the problem is that everyone's only played about 5min of each.. you should try playing each for 2 hours and see which you think is the better game. Toribash.

Sumotori is a fun, free little software toy that's great for 15-20 minutes of belly laughs, but Toribash is an excellent online game with a solid community and tons of mods. Toribash wins hands down, it's both much deeper, much more developed, larger community and keeps you coming for more.

Sumotori dreams is too random. Toribash has more gore and replayability. Toribash ftw. I choose toribash just because of it having a much longer play time. Sumo tori doesn't offer as much as toribash does. Sumotori is just not as responsive and is just something you can watch for 20 minutes. Toribash just kept my attention longer. Good online play, mods, etc.

Toribash. TORIBASH!!!!! Toribash. Sumotori is alright, and its fun, but Toribash has online multiplayer, items you can buy ingame that alter your ingame character, mods and scripts made by the players, and alot more. :D Toribash all the way. Sumotori isn't fun at all, I don't see whats so great about it. You actually have to have skill in toribash. The fact that you have to pay for Toribash is what puts me off. And, yes, you strangely can get good at Sumotori. I vote Sumotori.

-AlbeyAmakiir Toribash hands down, I haven't been able to play anything else since I started playing it. as a faithfull toribashian i must insist that toribash is by a long way the better game. Its exciting and sophisticated fights, and the complicated array of all the different possibilities in openers makes the gameplay comparable to chess. i dont really need to say anything about that other game... For instant gratification, sumotori is undoubtedly the winner. Toribash might be deeper but it's just not fun for me. Toribash definitely keeps you coming for more. It's a fun, innovative game with a good player base and offers more than just a few minutes of gameplay. Toribash, because of the amount control it gives the player, allows the player to do whatever he wants, which IMO is the most unique part of this game. :D ROFL, are you kidding me? sumotori is just a silly little minigame, It's nothing compared to toribash. You can be a sumo in Toribash. One that flies. Toribash owns people lives, as many such as myself know from experience. Toribash gets my vote.

-Abbadon Toribash is the best Sumotori is a thing to do when you have 5 minutes of spare time. Toribash is the same, but is much more developed, addictive and has a larger community. Much, much larger. Sumotori, while entertaining for maybe an hour, just doesn't give a massive feeling of replayability. Its just too simple.

Toribash, however... Whereas its not exactly easy to pick up, just seeing what you can do is reason enough to try. That, mixed with a myriad of different mods and game settings for online multiplayer, and a growing community makes Toribash a clear winner for me. Sumotori is interesting and entertaining, but it just doesn't feel fleshed out. Toribash is a full-fledged, in-depth game. True, it lacks the visual polish of more mainstream games, but it is the sheer fluid adaptability that lends it's pervassive addictiveness.

666 these are two completely different games with different goals. i don't see how you can measure one against the other. I know that Sumotori is fun, but it can never be as great as Toribash!

I vote Toribash FTW! Definetly Toribash, Toribash is better, deeper, and requires more skill. Been playing toribash for a while now.
This sumotori looks like theft to me. He couldn't even figure out a name for a game by himself. Meh, Toribash is better in all ways.
Toribash FTW!! Toribash all the way! It's much more of a real game. I've played both alot, and i gotta say Toribash wins without a doubt. The physics in toribash is stunning, plus it is so customizable that you never get tired of it. Toribash by far. Not only is it longer than Sumotori, with Multiplayer, and mods, scripts, joint colours, blood colours, etc, but it also has a much better community. For those complaining about Toribash paying, keep in mind that the Toribash servers are maintained from that money that you pay. And not only that but you can even compromise if you absolutely can't pay. Register on the forums, post as much as you can, sell signatures, head textures and whatever you can and gain 20,000 "toricredits". The 20k can be used to buy a registration key. It's not that hard to get a reg key. It's pretty easy compared to some other games. Didn't like either one to be honest... sumotori forever! Sumotori has this cool AI which tries to balance the player, it's fun to watch, spontaneous and accessible! Toribash is just stick figures and elastic bands.

Drunk sumo action FTW!!! Toribash is better hands down! There is just no other fighting game that can compete. Especially with the features and new updates coming regularly! Physics are amazing, and the customization is as well. Those include Head textures, blood color, and body part colors. Toribash is mad skillz. Best mutliplayer player base I've seen for any game ever. Toribash is certianly more fun than sumotori, all you do in sumotori is push paper over, yet toribash, you can rip their limbs off, THEN push them over. Toribash better. More gore, more madness. Toribash, definently Toribash. Sumotori Doesnt have the variety and the fun that Toribash provides with its multiplayer ability.

To me SumoTori has only ever apeared as a quick game and it doesnt have the expandibilty, customability and creativity that TB lets its players release. This is like a ufc fighter versus a retarded baby. D: (no offense to sumotori people)

I never got bored of toribash. Toribash for the wiiin. I can't decide between the two, apart from the aim of knocking your opponent down they are too different to each other to even attempt to say one is better than the other. Obviously Toribash.

Sumotori is just really a minigame, and will be forgotten in a few months. Toribash wins hands down at this vote. TO RI BASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My vote goes to Sumotori, it's just hands down technically superior :p Plus... destructable menus = $$$ Since Sumotori is still more of a tech demo, my vote for "better game" has to be Toribash.

Both have hilarious content though. Toribash FTW! TORIBASH FOR LIFE (almost) Ummm Toribash wins automatically seeing as anyone can play it, not just windows users.

And to me it just looks like you walk around bumping into the other guy hoping you push him over, where's the fun?

You can be Sumo wrestlers in Toribash, but in Toribash the Sumo wrestlers can be decapitated. Toribash is by far the best, skill is used to determine the outcome, but in Sumotori (name theft) the game is mostly random. The shooting mini game is the best bit. You can push people on sumotori. Whoop-dee-fricking-doo. In Toribash, you can kick their heads off. Decapitation>pushing. Toribash, no doubt. Most anyone who has given toribash over 10 minutes of playtime will realize that this is easily better than sumotori... Bigger community, more freedom, online multiplayer, whats not to like Toribash beats this craipe 20 times over. Its possibilities are limitless WTF? Whoever said its stickmen with elastic bands sucks some seriouse stuff. TORIBASH=BEST Toribash... wad? tht aint no other qualms bout tht.. =) abv comments says it all

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