<body><script type="text/javascript"> function setAttributeOnload(object, attribute, val) { if(window.addEventListener) { window.addEventListener('load', function(){ object[attribute] = val; }, false); } else { window.attachEvent('onload', function(){ object[attribute] = val; }); } } </script> <div id="navbar-iframe-container"></div> <script type="text/javascript" src="https://apis.google.com/js/plusone.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> gapi.load("gapi.iframes:gapi.iframes.style.bubble", function() { if (gapi.iframes && gapi.iframes.getContext) { gapi.iframes.getContext().openChild({ url: 'https://www.blogger.com/navbar.g?targetBlogID\x3d8701199\x26blogName\x3dIndependent+Gaming\x26publishMode\x3dPUBLISH_MODE_BLOGSPOT\x26navbarType\x3dBLUE\x26layoutType\x3dCLASSIC\x26searchRoot\x3dhttp://indygamer.blogspot.com/search\x26blogLocale\x3den_US\x26v\x3d2\x26homepageUrl\x3dhttp://indygamer.blogspot.com/\x26vt\x3d-3885218248821958630', where: document.getElementById("navbar-iframe-container"), id: "navbar-iframe" }); } }); </script>

Thursday, July 19, 2007
Voting is now closed, thanks for participating!

Vote count: Dwarf Fortress 73 - 21 The Kingdom of Loathing

Winner: Dwarf Fortress

"Kingdom of Loathing is hands-down the greatest web-browser game ever created. Dwarf Fortress can not compete with that. Can anyone even tell me why I would play DF over NetHack?" - Sebastian

"Dwarf Fortress is a clear winner. It's the best game I've played in a long time. A huge amount of detail, rapid development. The perfect mix of Dungeon Keeper, The Sims and NetHack." - VeaaC

"Not going to lie, KOL is pretty rockin' with its humouristic D&D going on, but DF has stolen so many hours of my life it's ridiculous." - anonymous

"Never even heard of Dwarf Fortress... so, I vote KOL." - Jonathan Ellis

"I've deposited quite a few hours into DF, and having to tell my dwarf lackys specifically what jobs to do, what things to pickup, where to put things you pick up, gets tiring. It's like its not a god game, its a mothering simulator..." - anonymous


Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 11:44:00 AM:  
My vote goes to Dwarf Fortress.

Not going to lie, KOL is pretty rockin' with its humouristic D&D going on, but DF has stolen so many hours of my life it's ridiculous.
Anonymous Prospero said at 7/19/2007 11:46:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress. No contest :)
Blogger VeaaC said at 7/19/2007 11:51:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress is a clear winner. It's the best game I've played in a long time. A Huge amount of detail, rapid development. The perfect Mix of Dungeon Keeper, The Sims and NetHack.
Blogger evan said at 7/19/2007 11:59:00 AM:  
Kingdom of Loathing but just by a hair and probably only because I've got more time invested.
Blogger Marco said at 7/19/2007 12:07:00 PM:  

Reason Why: Drawbridge Catapult Traps.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 12:18:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress.

KOL is great but can't really compare to DF.
Anonymous BMcC said at 7/19/2007 12:19:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress, hands down.
Blogger Sebastian said at 7/19/2007 01:31:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing.

There's no way I can vote for a Windows-only executable when games like that are a dime a dozen. Kingdom of Loathing is hands-down the greatest web-browser game ever created. Dwarf Fortress can not compete with that. Can anyone even tell me why I would play DF over NetHack?
Anonymous SaintMcBob said at 7/19/2007 01:35:00 PM:  
KoL. No doubt.

I've been playing it for years, and I could never get in to DF.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 01:35:00 PM:  
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 01:35:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing
Anonymous Jonathan Ellis said at 7/19/2007 01:38:00 PM:  
Never even heard of Dwarf Fortress. It looks like a kind of inferior roguelike, and considerably less sophisticated than even Angband (If DF needs different keys for attacking with different weapons, to judge from the screenshot, there's obviously a lot less you can do). By contrast I've been playing Kingdom of Loathing for several years now and it's still fun. So, I vote KOL.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 01:38:00 PM:  
KOL BABY... all else is poop!
Blogger Alex said at 7/19/2007 01:59:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress :)
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 02:10:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing, easily. I've never been one for roguelike games.
Anonymous Rowboat said at 7/19/2007 02:21:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress.

Apparently many people here haven't actually played Dwarf Fortress at all or at least bothered to read anything about it before voting... good thing this is just the internets. (Hint: it's not a roguelike, at least not in the mode depicted in the screenshot chosen here.)

I do in fact play both, and I love KOL, but I definitely invest much more time and interest in DF.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 02:26:00 PM:  
I've deposited quite a few hours into DF, and having to tell my dwarf lackys specifically what jobs to do, what things to pickup, where to put things you pick up, gets tiring. It's like its not a god game, its a mothering simulator. Theres something about the simple joys of swinging a heavy metal thunderrr guitarrr at a Weremoose that makes KOL the clear winner. also cocktailcrafting. every game should include that.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 02:38:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress
Anonymous Xander said at 7/19/2007 03:21:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress.

KOL is awesome, there's no doubt about that, but what's great about Dwarf Fortess is this simple request;

Write a guide to it.

By the time you try to finish that, you will be wiping nuclear fallout from your computer monitor and lamenting the fact that you seem to have fused to the chair, although rather comforted by the fact that your ass no longer hurts from extended periods of sitting. In fact in less dystopian circumstances it'd be kind of a boon. It's an absurdly deep game, and no matter how great Turtle Taming is as an RPG Skill Set, you can't beat something infinitessimally bigger than you.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 03:41:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing.

Sure, DF is fun and all, but Kingdom of Loathing has a crazy awesome community.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 03:42:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing... nothing like it.
Blogger generator said at 7/19/2007 03:43:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing

Recently been expanded, now jokes about bands that don't suck as well as well as jokes about "They might be giants"
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 03:48:00 PM:  
I vote for KoL.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 03:50:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing.

Dwarf Fortress looks pretty interesting and I think I'll have to give it a try, but Kingdom of Loathing has kept me interested almost every day for coming up on two years now.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 03:53:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing, definately.

The complete randomness and funniness of some of the things that happen in that game just add on to its great gameplay.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 04:36:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress

Never played KoL though, so maybe I'm biased :)
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 04:41:00 PM:  
KOL >w< rar!
Blogger Paul said at 7/19/2007 05:38:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress! Oh god, Dwarf Fortress! KoL is funny and all, but it's all premade jokes. I have laughed out loud many a time when playing DF, just due to the situations my dwarves get themselves into (or when I flood everything with lava and drive my remaining population mad with grief).
Blogger Raigan said at 7/19/2007 05:50:00 PM:  
DF, but for the love of god.. couldn't they keep the roguelike graphics but move to a non-roguelike interface?! hotkeys are great for adventuring, but not for managing a sim!
Blogger Alex said at 7/19/2007 05:54:00 PM:  
Seems like a lot of KOL fans voting without having played DF. Do some research. It's not even a roguelike, really. "why should I play this over Nethack" indeed :)
Blogger Alex said at 7/19/2007 05:55:00 PM:  
and TMBG used to not suck :(
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 05:58:00 PM:  
Kingdom of Loathing. The interface for Dwarf Fortress is incredibly cumbersome, and really gets in the way of my enjoyment of the experience. I do love the idea of it, though.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 07:54:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress.
DF is NOT and roguelike, it's an awesome fortress simulation game.

Anonymous D.S. Fargeg said at 7/19/2007 08:02:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. Any game with gruesomely detailed battle narratives, tentacle demons and a wrestling system is automatically the victor, even if it does bring your CPU to it's knees.
Blogger im9today said at 7/19/2007 08:13:00 PM:  
I enjoyed The Kingdom of Loathing much more.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 08:35:00 PM:  
I like dwarf fortress more.
Even though its only version 0.25, the severely underdeveloped adventure mode is almost on par with nethack. And, unlike ADOM, updates come somewhat on time.
Fort mode is also very fun. You do not need any extra buttons to attack in adventure mode. But if you choose to wrestle.....
100 options:
their body part and the one you want to grab it with.
Until you lose a limb.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 09:14:00 PM:  
I'm a fan of both; give Dwarf Fortress two thirds of a vote and let Kingdom of Loathing the other two thirds.
Blogger Megan said at 7/19/2007 09:15:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress, hands down. I've played both for many hours - the main difference is that with DF, I found myself playing for fifteen hours straight without realizing that time was passing. KoL has some good jokes and I thoroughly appreciate it, but when it comes to gameplay, detail, freedom, and replayability, Dwarf Fortress is the best I've ever seen, while KoL is merely a pastime.
Blogger Ryan said at 7/19/2007 09:23:00 PM:  
Dwarf fortress for sure
Blogger Aasdfadslkfj said at 7/19/2007 09:40:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. Clearly.
Anonymous Xgamer4 said at 7/19/2007 09:41:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. Easily. Flooding the world with magma will always be more fun than KoL.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 09:49:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress, its on its way to becoming the most complicated and deep simulation ever made.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 10:28:00 PM:  

"Can anyone even tell me why I would play DF over NetHack?"

Depends on if your talking about adventure mode or fortress mode.

Adventure mode hasn't gotten nearly as much work as fortress mode, and nethack barely beats it.

Fortress mode has so much detail it boggles the mind. The only way it could get more realistic is if toady started modeling quantum physics with it, and I don't doubt he could.

"If DF needs different keys for attacking with different weapons, to judge from the screenshot, there's obviously a lot less you can do."

That peticular screen is from fortress mode for telling you troops what weapon to get. In andventure mode, attacking is done by moving.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 10:31:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/19/2007 11:02:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress
Anonymous puke said at 7/19/2007 11:10:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress, hands down.

I feel this is slightly unfair, because theres really is no comparison -- besides the fact that theyre both free.

One is a massive freeform sandbox, and the other is an adventure rpg. The fun in one is exploring punny content and trading with others. the fun in the other is creating content and fleshing out a massive single player world.

I have to cast my lot with DF though. even though i've enjoyed both games for different reasons, i have enjoyed Dwarf Fortress on far more levels and for far longer.

Its a revolution in game design, and the innovation it (and the other fine Bay 12 Games) display set a whole new standard for computer gaming.

a standard i really dont expect anyone else to live up to anytime soon.
Blogger Chris said at 7/19/2007 11:45:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. I think it has the potential (if it ever gets the mainstream attention it deserves) to go down in history as one of the most influential games ever made.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 12:16:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress. Any game where a dwarf can go insane after drinking river water polluted with the blood of his wife and new born son is a clear winner in every match.
Blogger Timofei said at 7/20/2007 01:23:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress. I played KoL for a year or so, but then it got boring. I don't play DF now either, but it got so much potential, and when the next version is released I will start playing it again.
Blogger Popoyt said at 7/20/2007 01:29:00 AM:  
KOL, because it's easier (and faster) to play.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 02:03:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress
Blogger Paul Eres said at 7/20/2007 02:46:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress this time.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 03:32:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress. If only due to the Something Awful thread where they had a dwarf break EVERY bone in another dwarf's body. While ON FIRE. They both burned to death.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 04:00:00 AM:  
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 05:13:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress!

... also, Nexus War > tKoL.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 06:22:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress without a doubt
Anonymous Ian C said at 7/20/2007 06:32:00 AM:  
Anonymous mark d said at 7/20/2007 08:43:00 AM:  
DF is an ALPHA and dee best in a long while.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 10:43:00 AM:  
Reading over some of the comments, it seems that the KOL voters haven't played DF. Dwarf Fortress has an incredible amount of detail and little nuances that utterly defeat what KOL has to offer, so I vote Dwarf Fortress.
Blogger Alex said at 7/20/2007 12:14:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress FTW!
Blogger Markavian said at 7/20/2007 12:56:00 PM:  
I votes for DF, a top game no doubt. I just couldn't get into KoL.
Blogger Vinic said at 7/20/2007 01:12:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. There is nothing like describing to a group of people how an elephant named Krothom just trampled your best miner and then flung a dwarf's leg fifty feet. And then you're distracted by a message that says "Kal Korge has given birth. Kal Korge cancels Build Trap: seeking infant."
Blogger Chainsaw D. said at 7/20/2007 01:19:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress.

Nothing in KOL can match starting a new fort and having the whole thing meet an early, drunken demise when your fisherman pitches a rotten turtle into the barracks and pisses everyone off to the point of bareknuckle boxing.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 01:29:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. There is no contest. KOL is good and all, but DF has hundreds of time the ammount of content. The gameplay of DF is also superior, both in fortress and adventure mode.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 01:36:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. Anyone who has spent more than a few minutes with it shouldn't have any difficulty deciding this whatsoever. None.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 01:48:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress without even a shadow of a doubt.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 01:48:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress.

Sadly, a lot of KOL fans are posting without having tried both games.
Blogger Alex said at 7/20/2007 01:54:00 PM:  
Did this get posted to a DF forum or something? :)
Blogger Greg Sweetman said at 7/20/2007 02:05:00 PM:  
I vote for Dwarf Fortress

While KoL takes up plenty of my time, and entertains me with a satirical slant of an MMO, it is ultimately a very shallow game. DF on the other hand is so wonderfully complex that you'll never be able to say "I know everything"

Remember. Losing is fun!
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 02:32:00 PM:  
I have played both of these games and while both are fun I have to vote for Dwarf Fortress. Right now as an early alpha it is already a very fun sandbox with an impressive amount of detail. The plans for future development is why it really gets my vote because I feel that KoL hasn't really changed in years despite the addition of some new jokes.
Blogger m said at 7/20/2007 02:33:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress BY FAR

While I also play KOL, it's just a grind. Dwarf Fortress, like Nethack, has a really simplistic view, but you can do so much with the tools.

You can go ahead and combine lava with water and get a scalding steam explosion from where they meet. You can wage wars from your doorstep by devestating the trees in the area to piss off the elves or just slaughter the traders with abandon.

There is just so much stuff you can do with the world; even things the developer may not have planned but left in because it's really awesome to divert a portion of the river for cave farming.
Blogger Laffo said at 7/20/2007 02:37:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress by a long shot. I've spent a ton of time on Kingdom of Loathing, but it's nothing approaching as awesome.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 03:50:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress wins by a mile! Anybody who disagrees deserves to be beaten to death with an *Obsidian Table* and thrown into the chasm.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 03:53:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress ftw
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 04:22:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress, hands down. The number of elephants captured by my fortress now triples the number of dwarves. My butchers cannot process their meat fast enough, and soon they will rebel and snap the necks of every dwarf with their trunks.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 05:18:00 PM:  
DF all the way. Although I play both, (KoL introduced me to roguelikes) I love to read the stories from dwarf fortress.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 06:04:00 PM:  
KOl hahahhaa wereMoose..
Anonymous CogDissident said at 7/20/2007 06:26:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress, of course
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 06:51:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress is, by and large, the better game. KOL is funny and simple, as well as easy to play, but Dwarf Fortress is a magnificently complex, infinitely replayable, and marvelously unpredictable experience. Also, the dwarves in DF are capable of some of the most hilarious strokes of bizarre stupidity that I have ever witnessed in any game, including KOL.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 07:10:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress won for me when I had a Goblin champion with the title of "The Fancy Savage Moth" kill dozens of my Dwarves.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 07:20:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress.
Blogger Phil said at 7/20/2007 08:14:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress by far, but these games are really very different genres and thus a comparison doesn't work well.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 08:27:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. Listen folks, if you are reading this and haven't tried it yet, please do so! I had no idea a game could be so involved. This game is already one of the best I have ever played, and it keeps getting better. Mine a fortress, marshal an army, farm, trade, craft, watch your dwarves go insane, create rivers of lava or water or steam to defeat your enemies (or often, your dwarves)...I could go on for hours.
Blogger Beer said at 7/20/2007 08:35:00 PM:  
dwarves 4 lyfe
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/20/2007 09:34:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress. Kingdom of Loathing doesn't begin to come close to DF.
Anonymous Nikica said at 7/21/2007 02:24:00 AM:  
Played both and both are cool but Dwarf Fortress is simply awesome, it has this "thing" that keeps you getting back every time you don't want to play it anymore, it's like, a drug for Rogue-Fans and the big minus for KOL is that it isn't downloadable.

My vote: Dwarf Fortress
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/21/2007 02:30:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress. KoL's neat, but...
Anonymous Jim said at 7/21/2007 06:38:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress, all the way. I mean, this is the most freeform, detailed game I've ever played, and it only gets better with each release. KOL is funny for a short while, but it can't hold a candle to the sheer gameplay depth of DF.

"Can anyone even tell me why I would play DF over NetHack?" - what are you, an idiot? I don't think people this ignorant should be allowed to vote.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/21/2007 10:21:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress.

The levels of complexity are astounding, but you don't really need to pay attention to the more difficult to understand parts of the game. It's there for when you have more experience.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/21/2007 10:51:00 AM:  
Kingdom of Loathing totally rocks and it's really hilarious.
Kingdom of Loathing always get my vote.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/21/2007 03:55:00 PM:  
Seriously, Dwarf Fortress wins hands-down. Awesome game, minimal problems, and encourages the drowning of pesky nobles.

Oh, and Z-axis digging and fluid dynamics are being added.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/21/2007 10:54:00 PM:  
Definitely KOL! It's got the best graphics out there, and combat's so exciting!!!!!!1111twothreeforty
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/22/2007 07:56:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress

The two games really aren't comparable. KoL is a funny coffee break game. Dwarf Fortress is an insanely complex fantasy world simulator. I've enjoyed both, but Toady One has some of my money, and Jick hasn't.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/22/2007 12:32:00 PM:  
I don't play either, but dwarf fortress creates much more interesting reading, so that's what I'm voting for.
Blogger Doctor Zero said at 7/23/2007 07:01:00 AM:  
There's no contast.

Dwarf Fortress.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/24/2007 03:31:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/24/2007 10:20:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress is the most dangerous game. It wins.
Anonymous Anonymous said at 7/24/2007 02:01:00 PM:  
Dwarf Fortress
Blogger Lisa said at 7/26/2007 09:26:00 AM:  
Dwarf Fortress. No lie.